Masterclass 9 - How Play Helps Startups Win, with Pauline McNulty
Play can be an effective way for startups to foster creativity, build a strong team, reduce stress, and support learning and development.
Our guest this time was Pauline McNulty who’s on a mission to heal the world with the power of play.
This Revenue Coach® Masterclass was recorded live on Tue 14th Mar at 1200 UK.
Pauline is a co-founder of Playfilled, helping businesses create transformation by filling their culture with purposeful play. She’s also a Founder Mentor, and Advisory Board Member / NED. She's a former Executive leader & sponsor of strategic change, risk & assurance, and D&I.
Masterclass Transcript
Alastair Cole
Welcome to today's Revenue Coach masterclass. I'm Alastair Cole, your host for this session and the CEO and co-founder of Revenue Coach, a sales coaching platform that demystifies the process for founders and accelerates startup growth. This is our ninth live masterclass, where we explore some of the current challenges in the workplace for founders of startups, and for professionals whose responsibility is to generate revenue. Today's topic is how play helps startups win, and I'm delighted to welcome Pauline McNulty, who is our guest today. Hi Pauline!
Pauline McNulty
Hi, Alastair. Great to be here. Thank you for having me.
Alastair Cole
Absolute pleasure. So Pauline is on a mission to heal the world through the power of play. She's a co-founder of Playfilled (https://playfilled.com/), which boosts creativity and connection in the workplace with playful programmes and tools. And Pauline, you're also a founder mentor and advisory board member. Thanks very much for joining us today. Can you start by just telling us a little bit about you and your role at Playfilled?
Pauline McNulty
Sure, yeah, thanks again, for having me. So yeah, co-founder, playfield, after many years in the corporate world, and how we see our roles at play field is really being this bridge between the corporate world and this beautiful world of play, which is so rich and diverse. And really thinking about how we can practically bring all the power of play, to help people, be more connected, be more creative, and work together to drive high performance and innovation.
Alastair Cole
Thank you. And you know that that makes so much sense to me in the workplace. I've spent decades trying to bring that kind of culture into workplaces, through innovation initiatives and other things. And that word play for me, it's just, it's filled with happiness and smiles and challenges and rewards. But for everybody who's watching live or recorded, let's start at the beginning, what do you mean by play? What do we mean by play in the workplace?
Pauline McNulty
So play at its heart, we say that voluntary activity that we find escape probably enjoyable, and that can be rational, irrational, and is diverse, like people. So what you find deeply enjoying doable Aleister may be very different to what I find enjoyable. But what we will see when we are kind of engaging in play is that we kind of get into the flow, we lose a sense of time. And often it can be an activity, and a bit, it can also be just an experience. And what's really interesting, particularly the context of work is it can also be a mindset, to which you approach your life and the things that you have to deal with. In your life.
Alastair Cole
You have the concept of flow. Something that we share in common is computer science. As a background, I remember spending hours as a product engineer right in that flow, the halfway between challenge and reward, and it being a time just slipping away, because you were having such a good time. Yeah. I've heard you talk about purposeful play. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Pauline McNulty
Absolutely. So I guess in the Play World, the idea of purposeful play, you know, there's two schools of sorts, I guess how we say it is that play is always purposeful. And the reason being is that having fun, and getting all the rewards of engaging in an activity that's just deeply enjoyable, is a fantastic purpose in and of itself. The second way we could, sorry. The second way we can think about purpose, though, is that often when we're doing something that we deeply enjoy, it can be taught towards a specific outcome, whether that be a fixed or open outcome. So if you think about experimentation, or you think about a game, that again, is a purpose and you're specifically but you're really deeply enjoying what you're doing. So there's a whole range of purpose and that you can you can have when it comes to buy
Alastair Cole
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So the idea of just playing for the sake of ease is so enjoyable as well as having a kind of goal to shoot for. You know, it's all around us right in the sports we play. Be in the chat. And as we have on often, and even even work on a work life, or there's all these challenges, all these play things out there. Why is it so hard for businesses and companies? They're going to bring that spirit into the workplace? How come everybody isn't doing it?
Pauline McNulty
I think there's a few. A few things you see, I guess it's kind of how organisations have traditionally been designed that play and work have been held in opposition. And the fact that you can be having fun while achieving an outcome, I guess, is still very, fairly new. And well, lots of people enjoy their jobs. There is this kind of myth? I guess it exists around that. And alongside that, another myth that we see is that it's only for children. And so even the word play can be quite confrontational for some people. And they think, Well, how is that relevant? Why are we talking about it? But actually, when you click in the context of its activities, or verbs that you really love, doing work is just a label for a whole set of activities you might be doing, and there's no reason why we can't enjoy those. If we think about who's doing what and how we get to the results. So we think there's a massive opportunity to really think about it more consciously, and design organisations to help get people doing more of what they love more of their time.
Alastair Cole
And it's unquestionably easier to build those cultures and get people behaving in a particular way when organisations are small. So in the startup, sighs ride you think I know, from experience to actually ask him bedding coaches a lot, a lot easier to do it now. So what would be your, you know, thoughts about how startups could benefit from this versus large organisations? What What's the have that have? Do they have the inside track? And how could they use it?
Pauline McNulty
So I think the opportunities for all types of organisations, but you're absolutely right, I think startups don't have the legacy, potentially, of traditional larger organisations. And being in that growth, like the initial setup, and then through the growth stages, you have this opportunity to shape a culture that's going to see you through all of those stages, and you can make your own choices. And nurture a culture that has play embedded into it more consciously, rather than having to kind of unlearn behaviours, potentially. When you're kind of in a large organisation. So, you know, I think, if this is something that appeals to people within startups, I think it's like, well, how do you, like, use that as a competitive advantage? I think it would be super interesting.
Alastair Cole
Okay, and how, how would you? What would be your first suggestions to somebody? organisation, any size startup or larger? What are the first things they should be thinking about? If they like the idea of bringing play in? Where should their mindset be?
Pauline McNulty
I think there's kind of two things I'd point to one is, firstly, think about, like, the ways that we can play at work and think about which area might be the most relevant for us to start. So we see there's like four ways in which play can kind of appear in a workplace, the first one being the space. So does it invite lightness? Does it simply help people feel relaxed, thinking about space? And often people say, Well, what about Google Slides? And we're like, Well, yes, that can be played for some people, but it's quite an infantilized view of play. But you know, when you go into a space, whether you're feeling free and open, and you're going to be kind of more relaxed in it. So the first one is space. And the second way you can think about play at work is like achieving specific paths or outcomes. So often, you might have strategy days, or innovation processes running. And you've got different choices you can make about the methods that you might use to get to that outcome. And some examples might be Lego serious play, and as per strategy, and that's a great example of like, we've got something chunky to do. We're gathering people to do it, how might we use play as our method to get to kind of get there? The third way is really thinking about your behaviour and your culture. Again, you know, when you're in an environment where people have lightheartedness, curiosity, experimentation, that kind of openness, a spirit that mindset of playfulness is encouraged or not. So thinking about to what extent those behaviours are encouraged in your end, and nurtured within your culture is a really good way to think about it. And then the last piece of the puzzle within the colour of the play at work is thinking about the act of the work itself. So how can you think about what to eat in But what's played for each individual? And how do you allocate work, both within teams and across teams, to enable people to do the work that they love more of the time. And then here's the great, that's kind of such a big prize here in terms of thinking about how work is done, and who does what, and really come to designing so that people get to do more, because all the benefits for the individual and the collective, and in terms of motivation, wellbeing, etc, is huge. So, the first piece is kind of looking at those four areas and saying, Where, where, where's our, where's our opportunity, where's the first place that appeals to us to look. And then once you've identified that, the second thing is to kind of raise your awareness of what's actually happening already. And the way to do that is to start asking questions. So like, posing questions to each other. So for example, if I could ask you, how do you like to play? What do you deeply enjoy? And those conversations about this topic don't necessarily happen? As a matter of course, and, and exploring as a team, you know, how might when we're when we are operating our best? What are the characteristics? And what's happening? How, where can we leverage what's already happening, and build on that. So that kind of point of really just getting curious about what's happening. And then from there, design some experiments. So depending on where you want to look, you might say, actually look at a resource like hiker Island, which is got amazing different playful tools and techniques to say, actually, rather than having a standard meeting, to solve this problem, we're going to try a new different playful method and see what happens. See what you learn.
Alastair Cole
That those are fantastic, like six really juicy takeaways. So many questions about all of them. I loved number five, about the debate, almost a debate. Let's talk about play. That's it. Because actually, it's one of those things that we don't talk about, how do you like to play where people play? I love that idea that actually, let's talk about it, there's a chance about what's working, what's not, I love that. And the space, I remember the previous agency, there was when one breakfast bar or a couple of breakfast bar, but one in particular that kind of, you know, chest high with some barstools and it just became the superstar of the floor because you drift in and out you join for spontaneous meetings or not a spontaneous with your coffee. That little area was the catalyst for play, which is really interesting. You talked about Google Slides and or any kind of slides and leaving that to one cyber play. That makes perfect sense. But that's kind of the only bit about Tech Ed mentioned. And I know that you are working on a platform, and you're looking for pilot pilot partners. You know, you didn't mention technology. What can you tell us a little bit about? Can you tell us a little about the platform or technology tools that could be used for play?
Pauline McNulty
Absolutely, I think that I guess I see technology embedded and all of those touch points we spoke about in terms of your employees, parents, your customer experience will all be enabled by technology. So as much as you're looking at how you're solving problems, and looking at your behaviours, tech will either encourage playfulness or be a hindrance, depending on where you are, that this is all about. Looking at tools to, I guess, embed the behaviours, and or tools that help you build awareness. And I guess the way we think about it is that it's a bit of both. So we have some tools that help answer the question, how do I like to play, and we can actually gather data on that now. And we can then look at the profile the play preferences for an individual then look at the play preferences for a tee. And from that, generate a new conversation and start to promote an understanding of the language of play, which then helps them fast track that exploration of how we might play more together to achieve as well. And then the second piece in terms of I said, around our kind of enabling behaviours. Play is so powerful that connecting people or helping them be creative. Insofar as you particularly in a hybrid world, we all know the challenges around connection. And there's this lovely interlink between being creative together, and how that fast tracks connection. And we are developing a platform, which will enable people to embed that into their ways of working. And that's as you said, we're looking for pilot partners to You can really kind of help us build up the stories of how this works in practice.
Alastair Cole
Excellent. And we'll, we've dropped Pauline's email address into the comments. So we'll reiterate at the end, if anybody would like to be part of that pilot group. And you, you mentioned hybrid right there and remote. And while we've got you by, I'd love to hear your thoughts from experience and research on, on, on how it is harder to play virtually can can even be done, can you can you? Can you run kind of playful experiments virtually, if you can, what are your top tips for doing it remotely?
Pauline McNulty
Well, firstly, it's definitely possible, I think the challenge is that you've got to design for it and be conscious that you are intentionally abusive so that you pay attention to it. Because, as you described earlier, that lovely space that you had, in your previous agency play happened naturally, with people bumping into each other, and there was this lovely interaction space. And when we're in a hybrid world, we're doing things virtually, we kind of can become more transactional. And there aren't that necessary, the moments for the relaxing encounters and or the kind of natural playfulness that might emerge. So I think it's all about setting the tone for if you're having regular meetings. So start with check ins, create time in the agenda for those moments of connection. And think about pulling people into small breakouts, likely in pairs, just to kind of have a moment of connection one to one, rather than in bigger groups, which suits some people better and create space for it again, but what it looks like, in a hybrid virtual world is very much more maybe you'd have to spend a bit more time warming people up, you have to spend a bit more time saying, Okay, this is what we're going to be doing. But from our experience, it's definitely possible, you can connect deeply in this format. But you just need to make sure that that's your intention. And think about ways that that might happen. Again, I think there's so many wonderful resources out there that can talk about, like different techniques and tools. Again, go back to that point of start small, and experiment with a few and see what you learn and see what works for you for your
Alastair Cole
culture. Yeah, that certainly rang true about the kind of warm up, you know, because really, what we're trying to do is that get people into a space where they're comfortable with with with making comments or suggestions, the previously may have been considered, you know, a ridiculous or wild and for them to be comfortable enough to, you know, play without worrying about losing and those challenges. And that does take time, in order to, for people to be contextually aligned in those sessions. You can't just pitch up and be like, right, let's have some fun in the first minute. Right? doesn't, doesn't work like that. So I love that idea of effectively engineering for players not just having it up, let's not have the debate. But let's also bake in some time, and engineer it. One of the things that you've talked about before is the power to transform organisations through play through the boosted connectivity and creativity that feels like that. That takes a while. How does business transformation through play occur in terms of duration and people that are needed? How, you know, if I wanted to transform a particular my business, how long should I expect that to take and
Pauline McNulty
I think with all the transformations, it will take a while. And you know what we are is a mission based business. And we are still in very early stages of building awareness around the power of play. There's a host of evidence and research out there to prove this. And we are working with forward looking leaders to put that into practice. And but we haven't got to the point where we've done a whole scale transformation yet. We see that on Horizon. And our role in the world at the moment is being this bridge between this amazing world of play, and kind of the corporate startup world where play can be used in practice. And we're really building up those stories of where people have taken his power of play and put it into practice. And another resource that might be helpful for people is to learn more about these stories with our why play works podcast, which is a collaboration that we have. And that really is just starting to come from finding those leaders to have put play into practice in their organisations and seeing where it's taken them.
Alastair Cole
And in terms of experiments, right, you talked about working down the chain through various steps to the right, let's design some experiments. And you talked about Hyper Island, there are other resources there. Do you have any, sometimes I've seen whole organisations be boarded into a new, a new thing. I've also seen smaller teams go in as kind of, you know, early, early trial tests to see if it works, what would be your any, any guidance from you on one way or the other or how those experiments should be, should be started.
Pauline McNulty
Think it all depends on sponsorship. So I think with any, this is about an invitation to play. So if someone is feeling that they want to run experiments, depending on their role in that position, they want to rely on a small scale or large scale, and what it will, whatever their their remit and their ability to kind of put stuff into practice, I would kind of look to kind of what their circumstances are and what feels appropriate. But having said that, starting small is always better, because without over engineering something, you can then get learning quicker, and then adapt and learn quicker, you know, more effectively, and then really kind of tweak to say, right, okay, what's working, what's not working, so starting small, always feels better, and then let it naturally ripple out rather than it being something to forced. Because cost fun, as you've pointed out earlier, is not necessarily the best way to go.
Alastair Cole
Yeah, you know, I feel like any kind of cultural, cultural transformation has to happen organically, otherwise, it doesn't happen. And, you know, certainly if you're a startup, you're familiar with Agile methodologies, it's a be exactly the same, right? For bringing in play, you start a small test that sees what works, what doesn't work, ditch the stuff that doesn't and then move on to new iteration. So yeah, that makes perfect sense. You also talked about stakeholders, right and buy in and that that is really born, whether you start small or big. What level in an organisation should? Should it? How far? How far into it? Does play need to go? Does it need to go all the way to the top to the CEO and the chair? Or could it not be started in separate units, smaller units.
Pauline McNulty
But it's, I think it could start anywhere. So I think teams have very many cultures and within them, they can achieve wonderful things, there obviously be a limit to what they can do. And that's what we've seen is that when we're working with teams, and divisional, rather than a whole lot, that is operating in the context of the whole. So in an ideal world, you would start with senior leadership buy-in, you wouldn't do a top down rollout, because that's not the way to do effective change. But having the buy in and the sponsorship from leadership in terms of where we go. This is why it's strategically important to us, I think, is the ideal situation. But I wouldn't say well, if they literally could not park thought into it, don't do anything. Because even an individual can start by doing something like keeping an energy diary to gain their own awareness around when they are at play? What are they enjoying that they do not enjoy? Thinking about it? How do they do their work? Do they sit at their desk? Or do they go for a walk? How do they pose questions? And what do they think about their playful mindset? There's lots of things even an individual can do within the team. And so I think that's the best place to start, as well.
Alastair Cole
Okay, well tell us more about an energy diary.
Pauline McNulty
Yes. So I found this really super helpful. When I was exploring, again, I discovered I should say, what play was for me, and this comes from designing your life for two Stanford professors who realised there's lots of people leaving Stanford and had these wonderful qualifications but didn't know what to do with them. And there's a very big difference between having an academic qualification and then putting it into practice. And what the concept is, it kind of comes from design thinking and using those principles but for life design or work design is very much to say, after each activity you do. Did it increase your energy? Did it deplete your energy? What did you notice? What did you learn? So when do you feel drained? When do you feel energised? And this is all really helpful data about what you love and And what do you want to lean into? And what do you want to create more opportunities for you? How do you want to spend your time?
Alastair Cole
Well, I mean that that's something that is obviously missing from my life, the idea of energy diary. Sounds great. I'm going to explore that right away. You talked a lot about the Stanford professors. Is there somebody listening? Who's thinking this all sounds great, I'd like to get going. Is there a book or a particular resource? I mean, you mentioned Hi, Brian, in terms of the experiments, but is there a book or a seminal text that you'd recommend people go and read or an article?
Pauline McNulty
Yeah, so I guess there's a few things. So as I mentioned before, the why Playworks podcast, but inspirational stories of leaders and people working in this space, which always includes practical tips, and our playfield blog, which is on plato.com, that, again, we have a number of articles and resources there. And the book that I always recommend is the play by Dr. Stuart Brown. I won't quote the rest of the title correctly, but how it shapes imagination and creativity. And for me, that was the book that really took it from this conceptual world into something I was like. Actually, there's so much opportunity here for both to meet individually and for us collectively to think about how we do work. And it's just brilliant. So that really unpacked it. And it could have introduced the idea of play preferences of our play personalities, and being a massive inspiration for what we do at play field.
Alastair Cole
Thank you, we'll make sure that all those references are included in the show notes. If people wanted to ask you more about that, or get in touch, generally, how should they? How should they reach out to you?
Pauline McNulty
So they can email me at pauline@playfield.com? Or connect on LinkedIn. And really, we'd love to have conversations about this topic. So if you're just got a question you want answered, we'd love to have a chat. And, as you said before, if people are curious and up for experimenting, and we'd love to be potentially interested in our pilot, that we're ready for an enterprise platform, it'd be great if you got in touch. And we can tell you more about that.
Alastair Cole
Thanks. And those details are being posted in the LinkedIn chat. Now, I love that you talked about conversations and having chats. And because that was one of the things that jumped out for me, you talked about, one of the steps that people can take practically is raise the level of debate effectively. And I think somebody at a startup, whether their founder or not, right now watching this thing could put a slot in the diary. And let's have a bit of a chat and talk about play. Where are we playing? We're not playing nice and easy. It's a meeting as a kind of first outfield that would be really, to raise the profile, a good way to get started. So you know that that's, that's really, sadly, all we've got time for today. Pauline, that's been fantastic. I love those kinds of four, four or five insights that you dropped together, they were super helpful. Is there anything that you'd like to leave the listeners watchers with now, any key taken out from you?
Pauline McNulty
I guess the main thing is that it is already happening in your life. And this kind of the main call to action is just to notice that, be aware of that, and then use that as a basis to build on it to increase it both for yourself and for others around you. Because the benefits are huge. And who, who doesn't want to kind of achieve their purpose in a more fun and proven to be more effective way?
Alastair Cole
Yep. Great, thank you very much. And anybody who'd like to know more about how the revenue coach platform demystifies the sales process and accelerates startup growth, you can head over to revenue coach.ai where you can sign up for free. All that's left for me is to say thank you very much to our guests, Pauline. Thanks for your time and your expertise and your insights today, Pauline. It's been a lot of fun. Thank you. Thanks very much. And goodbye, everybody.
